Started by MP, Nov 20, 2024, 05:10 PM

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MP(OP)

Some time ago, I mentioned potential applications of Tau beyond the field of software development, such as implementing a large-scale democratic election system. The concept isn't very different from developing software with Tau—except instead of involving a single person or a team, an entire nation would use Tau to collectively agree on how to function. The key advantage is that decisions would be made in real time, with greater accuracy, making many political representatives obsolete. One of the main hurdles I see is how to make this system trustworthy and user-friendly for voters.

That said, allow me to quote Fola's comment on Reddit:

QuoteThe Tau Net not only allows consensus between multiple parties removing current bottlenecks in modern democracies but also allows you to propose your own laws avoiding being gaslighted by the system or simply not being heard due to too many voices.

QuoteAbsolutely, Tau is bigger than just software development and may be integrated in large scale governmental systems.

We, as a society know for sure that voting doesn't stay fair and scale at the same time. We always default to hierarchies because individual needs and issues do not propagate up to the highest levels of the pyramid. We are sold the dream that we have the equal right to vote, but it's meaningless as we don't have the equal right to propose what to vote over.
Let's say all citizens of your country had the equal right to propose what to vote over. Who would be able to read and process the millions of proposals per day across the the voter base? Not only would you propose, but you'd have to read every single other proposal up and down the country. There have been attempts at solving this with machine learning but this also fails because machine learning is inherently statistical/ probabilistic and doesn't have access to the individual meaning or intent that each user may have, so there's huge probability of misunderstanding.

How Tau solves this is by coming knowledge representation with it's advanced specification language. Users are able to say what they desire in logical sentences, and define the meaning/intent of the words to the system using user generated or off the shelf ontologies so the Tau system may logically reason over every users wishes. In that, Tau is able to compute where every user agrees and disagrees at large scale, yielding the ability to have a 1 million person concurrent conversation.

I like to give this thought as an example to give perspective. Take one of Elon Musk's tweets, you'll see 100,000 comments. But, if you were able to read every single one there wouldn't be 100,000 different opinions. There would probably be less than 100 interwoven complex opinions that overlap and disagree in various manners. Tau Net is able to detect this so everyone instantly knows who agrees and disagrees with one another across the entire platform.

What do you think? Do you believe this idea could be implemented?

martijnbolt

Let's hope so! :) 

This is the key reason I'm interested in Tau so we'd better work hard to make this work. It's the only chance we have AFAIK to hand the world over to the next generation in a somewhat decent state.

MP(OP)

It makes sense to think that the challenges will not only be technical (having a functional Tau Engine that has also proven its worth to society); there will also be profound resistance from those who live off and profit from their representative positions. It wouldn't surprise me if the poorer the country, the more obstacles its representatives put in place to prevent the adoption of a Tau system.

From a practical standpoint, I imagine the system working like this:
1. A user/citizen creates an anonymized account (pay attention to Ohad's patent on this), which serves as their means to have a voice and vote within the system. 
2. The user can express their opinion on any topic at any time of the day through their computer or smartphone (through some kind of user-friendly interface or app so the user doesn't have to write code).
3. That opinion will be added to those of others. Tau will process them in real time and produce a conclusion that is coherent with the collective opinions. 
4. This conclusion will then be handed over to human actors (the executive body of the respective country) and implemented.

S1r_4zdr3w

Yes, we need to see it running. I have tested TML, and it detects contradictions and infinite loops at tml.tau.net
For the tech people, you can play with the Tau REPL to run the simple demos, though the team are still fixing some bugs.

We need to see the actual demo working to showcase Tau abilities. For now, here is what I have I know,

System Trustworthy
(proofs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FH_d0xecXM&list=PLeBSjZu0y6vWInPFgM7nCDD7VjqSDViu6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOJfvzo3mhY&list=PLeBSjZu0y6vWInPFgM7nCDD7VjqSDViu6&index=6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TntPPkb2oDc&list=PLeBSjZu0y6vV-vSKu9EcoaceQEiWtYcP6&index=6

(credentials)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykVUja8m8JE&list=PLeBSjZu0y6vXmFwoi1BH7uwb2w_642aKW&index=29


User-friendly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcIQO5k7zr8&list=PLeBSjZu0y6vUOVx9LUtfLyL-yIyePg4O4

1, 2, 3 - I agree
4 - after we see the opinion map, it's wiser to first to ask deeper consequences, before implementing it, to see whether we really want that action or not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHaTieCheVA&list=PLeBSjZu0y6vXmFwoi1BH7uwb2w_642aKW&index=41

And that's the reason I give lots of time and resources on my YTube videos on education. As more people learn and participate in Tau, the wider and deeper perspective will be shared, creating a holistic decision making process.

For a global problem, we need a global solution, a solution that comes from all people involved.
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